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Hôtel de L'Abbaye Le Tronchet - Handwritten Collection — Hotel in Saint-Malo

Name
Hôtel de L'Abbaye Le Tronchet - Handwritten Collection
Description
Elegant stone-constructed hotel with gardens, an outdoor pool & a restaurant, plus a bar & a lounge.
Nearby attractions
Notre Dame Du Tronchet Abbey
10 D119, 35540 Le Tronchet, France
Nearby restaurants
Le Jardin de l'Abbaye
L'Abbatiale, 35540 Le Tronchet, France
Restaurant Virgule - Saint-Malo Golf Resort
Domaine de Saint, Brisée de Saint-Yvieux, 35540 Le Tronchet, France
Nearby hotels
Les Cottages du Golf de Saint Malo
30 Le Dom. du Golf, 35540 Le Tronchet, France
Résidence Odalys Référence Domaine de l’Emeraude
La Croix de la Mission, 35540 Le Tronchet, France
Saint Malo Golf
Domaine de Saint-Yvieux, 35540 Le Tronchet, France
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Hôtel de L'Abbaye Le Tronchet - Handwritten Collection
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Basic Info

Hôtel de L'Abbaye Le Tronchet - Handwritten Collection

7 L'Abbatiale Rue De, 35540 Le Tronchet, France
4.0(261)
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Ratings & Description

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Elegant stone-constructed hotel with gardens, an outdoor pool & a restaurant, plus a bar & a lounge.

attractions: Notre Dame Du Tronchet Abbey, restaurants: Le Jardin de l'Abbaye, Restaurant Virgule - Saint-Malo Golf Resort
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Phone
+33 2 99 16 94 41
Website
all.accor.com

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Reviews

Nearby attractions of Hôtel de L'Abbaye Le Tronchet - Handwritten Collection

Notre Dame Du Tronchet Abbey

Notre Dame Du Tronchet Abbey

Notre Dame Du Tronchet Abbey

4.4

(67)

Open 24 hours
Click for details

Things to do nearby

Dive into Saint Malo in English
Dive into Saint Malo in English
Thu, Dec 11 • 2:00 PM
35400, Saint-Malo, France
View details
Excursion dune journée au Mont Saint-Michel depuis Paris
Excursion dune journée au Mont Saint-Michel depuis Paris
Mon, Dec 8 • 7:15 AM
22 Rue Jean Rey, Paris, France, Paris, 75015
View details
Soirée RedCactus Poker X Le 14 à SAINT-MALO (35)
Soirée RedCactus Poker X Le 14 à SAINT-MALO (35)
Tue, Dec 9 • 7:30 PM
13 Rue du Bois Aurant, 35400 Saint-Malo
View details

Nearby restaurants of Hôtel de L'Abbaye Le Tronchet - Handwritten Collection

Le Jardin de l'Abbaye

Restaurant Virgule - Saint-Malo Golf Resort

Le Jardin de l'Abbaye

Le Jardin de l'Abbaye

4.7

(24)

Click for details
Restaurant Virgule - Saint-Malo Golf Resort

Restaurant Virgule - Saint-Malo Golf Resort

4.7

(44)

Click for details
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Posts

Mika KangasMika Kangas
A True Gem Among French Stays This hotel truly stood out as the highlight of our trip through France. The photo shared captures the serene inner courtyard as seen from our private terrace, offering a sense of the peaceful atmosphere that defines the entire experience. Our stay was exceptionally pleasant. The hotel was immaculate and exuded a refined coziness that made it feel both luxurious and inviting. The building itself, rich in history and beautifully maintained, added a unique character and charm that modern hotels often lack. The peaceful surroundings further enhanced the sense of relaxation. Our room was in excellent condition, quiet, well-appointed, and offering all the comfort one could wish for. The property also features a good-sized swimming pool and a compact yet elegant spa area, perfect for unwinding at the end of the day. One of the highlights was the in-house fine dining restaurant, where we enjoyed a dinner. The quality of the ingredients, many sourced locally, was clearly evident. Breakfast the next morning maintained the same high standards. The restaurant space was calm and tastefully designed, making each meal a relaxing and enjoyable moment. The friendly and professional service tied everything together, making this hotel an easy favorite among all the places we visited during our trip. Without question, we would return and recommend it without hesitation.
U JstrU Jstr
Das Hotel möchte ein 4* BW Premier Hotel sein, also die gehobene Best Western Ausstattung. Es wird den Ansprüchen nur vom Preis gerecht. Die Leistung ist mangelhaft. Wenn man nur eine Nacht bleibt, kann man vielleicht über die vielen Unzulänglichkeiten hinwegsehen. Längere Aufenthalte würde ich nach den Erlebnissen hier (und in der BW-Hotelgruppe) nicht mehr buchen. Lage: inmitten vom Nirgendwo. Wenn man nicht im Restaurant essen möchte, muss man mindestens 10 km fahren. Das Restaurant hat an 2. Tagen geschlossen und bietet nur ein Menü. Personal: Als wir ankamen war die Rezeption nicht besetzt. Nach 15 min Suche konnten wir jemanden finden. Dafür war unsere Buchung nicht auffindbar, obwohl wir schon vorab mit dem Hotel in Kontakt standen. Man hat uns dann erst in ein benutztes, ungemachtes Zimmer geführt, bevor die hektische Suche nach einen freien Raum losging. Wir durften so lange im Gang vor dem Zimmer warten. Zum Ausgleich haben unsere Zimmerkarten alle 3 Tage nicht mehr funktioniert (Länger bleibt der Standardgast wohl nicht). Dass die Rezeption selten besetzt ist, haben wir dann wieder gespürt. Zum Ausgleich waren die PCs an der Rezeption weder durch ein Passwort noch einen Bildschirmschoner gesichert, Gästelisten lagen im Altpapier. Viele Grüße an den Datenschutz. Die Reinigungskräfte findet man regelmäßig im Gästebereich rauchend zusammenstehen. Die kümmern sich manchmal auch direkt um das Frühstück. Zimmer: Die Prospektbilder schönen... Zimmer sind feucht, muffig, kalt und werden nur oberflächlich gereinigt. Man musste regelrecht betteln, Kaffeepulver für die Wasserkocher zu bekommen. Dafür wurden schon mal die Müllbeutel aus den anderen Zimmern abgelegt. Das Dach war undicht, bei Regen drang Wasser ins Gebäude (zum Glück tropfte es nicht direkt ins Zimmer), erklärt aber den muffigen Geruch. Es wird aktiv Energie gespart: Überall Bewegungsmelder, die das Licht ein- und ausschalten, auch im Zimmer. Bewegt man sich, geht das Licht an und Sekunden später wieder aus. Psychoterror vom Feinsten. Tipp: Eine Rolle Klebeband wirkt Wunder... Ausstattung: Fitnessraum mit 4 Geräten und defekter Decke. SPA nur gegen gesonderte zusätzliche Bezahlung (zur Erinnerung 4*+)! Freibad kostenlos, man musste abends (bis 23.00 geöffnet) den elektrischen Poolsauger ausschalten. Tennis: 24/7 verfügbar aber kein Flutlicht... Anlage: Wird kaum noch gepflegt, es läuft zwar ein Gärtner durch die Gegend, der regelmäßig Gras schneidet, das ist aber alles. Laub liegt in den Gängen. Frühstück: jeden Tag die gleichen (wenigen) Dinge, für 4*+ absolut unangemessen. Eine Kaffeemaschine und je ein(!) gemeinschaftlicher Salz- / Pfefferstreuer für alle Gäste. Schimmeliges Obst wurde zum Teil wieder zurückgelegt und am nächsten Tag wieder angeboten. Obstsalat, Crepes und Eierspeisen waren Massenware. Ein Tuch um das Brot beim Schneiden vor dem Anfassen zu schützen gab nicht. Erst als Gäste die Servietten nutzen gab es etwas Schutz. Es wurde nichts frisch zubereitet. Die meisten Dinge kann man im Supermarkt besser essen. Es wurden auch Busgruppen angenommen (s. Datenschutz), wenn man früh zum Frühstuck kam, war das Buffet nicht immer rechtzeitig aufgefüllt, manche Dinge fehlten komplett, die Tische waren noch nicht abgeräumt. Auf das "Luxus"-Restaurant haben wir nach der Frühstückserfahrung verzichtet. Wifi: Wenn es mal funktionierte, war es sehr, sehr langsam. Man fühlte sich beim Seitenaufbau in analoge Zeiten (Modem) zurückversetzt. Viele Seiten funktionierten erst, wenn man manuell einen eigenen DNS eingerichtet hat. Tipp: Wer beruflich auf eine schnelle Internetverbindung angewiesen ist, sollte sich vorher einen eigenen mobilen Hotspot besorgen und die Netzabdeckung der lokalen Mobilfunkprovider prüfen (zum Teil auch sehr langsam). Selten haben wir uns so auf die Abreise gefreut. Das man nicht wusste, dass wir abreisen und wie lange wie geblieben sind, rundete das Bild noch ab.
Marijana StoltzMarijana Stoltz
The room was lovely with views of the river and we enjoyed the pool. The restaurant was another story. We ordered the 7 course menu. The food is beautifully presented. However some basic mistakes: The fish was raw. The mussels over cooked. The pork was very good. Dessert rich. The biggest thing was nowhere do they say you can not bring a baby to the restaurant. We took our 9 month old. He was quiet throughout, he is used to restaurants and we feed him slowly. So he sits in the high chair and plays and eat. He was sitting with his dad and they were laughing between courses. The waitress came over and asked us to go eat in our room with still 4 courses to go. We were completely shocked. Nobody complained about the baby. He was not noisy. I spoke to the manager and she said that is unacceptable what she told us. We changed waitresses and got our drinks( my sparkling water and my husbands wine pairing on the house) but the evening was spoilt and we felt unwelcome and after that every little giggle or sound I would look around and be sure he is isn’t bothering anybody. A damper on a lovely night. An immense disappointment and sadness ; this waitresses behaviour towards us. This left a bad taste for us and we would not recommend the restaurant or place due to this.
See more posts
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Find your stay

Pet-friendly Hotels in Saint-Malo

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A True Gem Among French Stays This hotel truly stood out as the highlight of our trip through France. The photo shared captures the serene inner courtyard as seen from our private terrace, offering a sense of the peaceful atmosphere that defines the entire experience. Our stay was exceptionally pleasant. The hotel was immaculate and exuded a refined coziness that made it feel both luxurious and inviting. The building itself, rich in history and beautifully maintained, added a unique character and charm that modern hotels often lack. The peaceful surroundings further enhanced the sense of relaxation. Our room was in excellent condition, quiet, well-appointed, and offering all the comfort one could wish for. The property also features a good-sized swimming pool and a compact yet elegant spa area, perfect for unwinding at the end of the day. One of the highlights was the in-house fine dining restaurant, where we enjoyed a dinner. The quality of the ingredients, many sourced locally, was clearly evident. Breakfast the next morning maintained the same high standards. The restaurant space was calm and tastefully designed, making each meal a relaxing and enjoyable moment. The friendly and professional service tied everything together, making this hotel an easy favorite among all the places we visited during our trip. Without question, we would return and recommend it without hesitation.
Mika Kangas

Mika Kangas

hotel
Find your stay

Affordable Hotels in Saint-Malo

Find a cozy hotel nearby and make it a full experience.

Get the Appoverlay
Get the AppOne tap to find yournext favorite spots!
Das Hotel möchte ein 4* BW Premier Hotel sein, also die gehobene Best Western Ausstattung. Es wird den Ansprüchen nur vom Preis gerecht. Die Leistung ist mangelhaft. Wenn man nur eine Nacht bleibt, kann man vielleicht über die vielen Unzulänglichkeiten hinwegsehen. Längere Aufenthalte würde ich nach den Erlebnissen hier (und in der BW-Hotelgruppe) nicht mehr buchen. Lage: inmitten vom Nirgendwo. Wenn man nicht im Restaurant essen möchte, muss man mindestens 10 km fahren. Das Restaurant hat an 2. Tagen geschlossen und bietet nur ein Menü. Personal: Als wir ankamen war die Rezeption nicht besetzt. Nach 15 min Suche konnten wir jemanden finden. Dafür war unsere Buchung nicht auffindbar, obwohl wir schon vorab mit dem Hotel in Kontakt standen. Man hat uns dann erst in ein benutztes, ungemachtes Zimmer geführt, bevor die hektische Suche nach einen freien Raum losging. Wir durften so lange im Gang vor dem Zimmer warten. Zum Ausgleich haben unsere Zimmerkarten alle 3 Tage nicht mehr funktioniert (Länger bleibt der Standardgast wohl nicht). Dass die Rezeption selten besetzt ist, haben wir dann wieder gespürt. Zum Ausgleich waren die PCs an der Rezeption weder durch ein Passwort noch einen Bildschirmschoner gesichert, Gästelisten lagen im Altpapier. Viele Grüße an den Datenschutz. Die Reinigungskräfte findet man regelmäßig im Gästebereich rauchend zusammenstehen. Die kümmern sich manchmal auch direkt um das Frühstück. Zimmer: Die Prospektbilder schönen... Zimmer sind feucht, muffig, kalt und werden nur oberflächlich gereinigt. Man musste regelrecht betteln, Kaffeepulver für die Wasserkocher zu bekommen. Dafür wurden schon mal die Müllbeutel aus den anderen Zimmern abgelegt. Das Dach war undicht, bei Regen drang Wasser ins Gebäude (zum Glück tropfte es nicht direkt ins Zimmer), erklärt aber den muffigen Geruch. Es wird aktiv Energie gespart: Überall Bewegungsmelder, die das Licht ein- und ausschalten, auch im Zimmer. Bewegt man sich, geht das Licht an und Sekunden später wieder aus. Psychoterror vom Feinsten. Tipp: Eine Rolle Klebeband wirkt Wunder... Ausstattung: Fitnessraum mit 4 Geräten und defekter Decke. SPA nur gegen gesonderte zusätzliche Bezahlung (zur Erinnerung 4*+)! Freibad kostenlos, man musste abends (bis 23.00 geöffnet) den elektrischen Poolsauger ausschalten. Tennis: 24/7 verfügbar aber kein Flutlicht... Anlage: Wird kaum noch gepflegt, es läuft zwar ein Gärtner durch die Gegend, der regelmäßig Gras schneidet, das ist aber alles. Laub liegt in den Gängen. Frühstück: jeden Tag die gleichen (wenigen) Dinge, für 4*+ absolut unangemessen. Eine Kaffeemaschine und je ein(!) gemeinschaftlicher Salz- / Pfefferstreuer für alle Gäste. Schimmeliges Obst wurde zum Teil wieder zurückgelegt und am nächsten Tag wieder angeboten. Obstsalat, Crepes und Eierspeisen waren Massenware. Ein Tuch um das Brot beim Schneiden vor dem Anfassen zu schützen gab nicht. Erst als Gäste die Servietten nutzen gab es etwas Schutz. Es wurde nichts frisch zubereitet. Die meisten Dinge kann man im Supermarkt besser essen. Es wurden auch Busgruppen angenommen (s. Datenschutz), wenn man früh zum Frühstuck kam, war das Buffet nicht immer rechtzeitig aufgefüllt, manche Dinge fehlten komplett, die Tische waren noch nicht abgeräumt. Auf das "Luxus"-Restaurant haben wir nach der Frühstückserfahrung verzichtet. Wifi: Wenn es mal funktionierte, war es sehr, sehr langsam. Man fühlte sich beim Seitenaufbau in analoge Zeiten (Modem) zurückversetzt. Viele Seiten funktionierten erst, wenn man manuell einen eigenen DNS eingerichtet hat. Tipp: Wer beruflich auf eine schnelle Internetverbindung angewiesen ist, sollte sich vorher einen eigenen mobilen Hotspot besorgen und die Netzabdeckung der lokalen Mobilfunkprovider prüfen (zum Teil auch sehr langsam). Selten haben wir uns so auf die Abreise gefreut. Das man nicht wusste, dass wir abreisen und wie lange wie geblieben sind, rundete das Bild noch ab.
U Jstr

U Jstr

hotel
Find your stay

The Coolest Hotels You Haven't Heard Of (Yet)

Find a cozy hotel nearby and make it a full experience.

hotel
Find your stay

Trending Stays Worth the Hype in Saint-Malo

Find a cozy hotel nearby and make it a full experience.

The room was lovely with views of the river and we enjoyed the pool. The restaurant was another story. We ordered the 7 course menu. The food is beautifully presented. However some basic mistakes: The fish was raw. The mussels over cooked. The pork was very good. Dessert rich. The biggest thing was nowhere do they say you can not bring a baby to the restaurant. We took our 9 month old. He was quiet throughout, he is used to restaurants and we feed him slowly. So he sits in the high chair and plays and eat. He was sitting with his dad and they were laughing between courses. The waitress came over and asked us to go eat in our room with still 4 courses to go. We were completely shocked. Nobody complained about the baby. He was not noisy. I spoke to the manager and she said that is unacceptable what she told us. We changed waitresses and got our drinks( my sparkling water and my husbands wine pairing on the house) but the evening was spoilt and we felt unwelcome and after that every little giggle or sound I would look around and be sure he is isn’t bothering anybody. A damper on a lovely night. An immense disappointment and sadness ; this waitresses behaviour towards us. This left a bad taste for us and we would not recommend the restaurant or place due to this.
Marijana Stoltz

Marijana Stoltz

See more posts
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Reviews of Hôtel de L'Abbaye Le Tronchet - Handwritten Collection

4.0
(261)
avatar
4.0
2y

WE WERE TRULY LOOKING FORWARD TO OUR MENU GASTRONOMIQUE WHICH ON THE RATINGS HEREIN, SUGGESTED THE PLACE WAS FABULOUS!!||AFTER BEING IGNORED FOR THE OBLIGATORY HOUR MY WIFE AND I WERE OFFERED A DRINK AND SINCE IT WAS A BLIND-TASTING MENU THERE WERE NO CHOICES OTHER THAN HOW MANY COURSES? ||WE CHOSE 5 AND WERE SEATED HALF AN HOUR LATER. ||THE FIRST COURSE CONSISTED OF A SLIPPERY CONCOCTION OF RAZOR FISH CLAMS, RAW SCALLOPS & MOULE. IN FACT, THE ONLY ADDITIONAL TEXTURE TO BE HAD WAS THE 2" PIECE OF PLASTIC THAT WAS HIDDEN IN THE MEAL. ||I INFORMED THE MAISTER DE, WHO WAS SUITABLY CONCERNED/CONCERNED/CONCIALITORY BUT I WAS HAPPY TO SIMPLY MOVE ON SUGGESTING THAT SOMEONE COULD HAVE CHOKED ON IT AND BEST INFORM THE KITCHEN BLAH BLAH..||THE SECOND PLATE ARRIVED WITH A SIMILARLY TEXTURELESS GUNK CONSISTING OF MASHED AUBERGIGNE INNARDS TOPPED WITH SOU VIDE GREY MULLET ADORNED WITH SOME SLIPPERY SKIN FOR GOOD MEASURE.||NOT EXACTLY FEELING IT BUT LOOKING FORWARD TO BETTER. WE TUCKED INTO A SORBET TO CLEANSE THE PALLET AND LO AND BEHOLD OUR FRIEND THE PLASTIC APPEARED AGAIN. ||THIS TIME IN THE FORM OF A CLEAR HARD PLASTIC THAT LODGED IN MY THROAT AND HAD ME COUGHING & CHOKING, I KID YOU NOT.... ||RELIEVED TO HAVE COUGHED IT UP AND SPAT IT ONTO MY PLATE I CONTINUED TO PICK OTHER BITS OF SPIRELLED PLASTIC THAT HAD STUCK IN MY TEETH.||ONCE AGAIN THE MAISTRE DE WAS ON HAND TO SHAKE HIS HEAD AND OFFER HIS PERSONAL APOLOGY BUT NOTHING MORE.||WE BOTH FELT THAT AT THIS STAGE WE HAD GIVEN IT A CHANCE AND DECIDED TO BACK TO THE GOLF CLUB FOR SOMETHING LESS DANGEROUS TO EAT SUCH AS A BURGER OR SOMETHING AND WERE UTTERLY |FLABERGASTED TO BE PRESENTED WITH A BILL FOR THE ENTIRE 5 COURSES INCLUDING ONES WE HADN'T HAD ALONG WITH THE WINE ACCOMPANIMENT WE ALSO HADN'T HAD. ||DESPITE OUR PROTESTATIONS TO THE MANAGER WE WERE FORCED TO PAY THE BILL EVEN AFTER THE MANAGER WAS MADE TO CALL...

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avatar
4.0
2y

WE WERE TRULY LOOKING FORWARD TO OUR MENU GASTRONOMIQUE WHICH ON THE RATINGS HEREIN, SUGGESTED THE PLACE WAS FABULOUS!!||AFTER BEING IGNORED FOR THE OBLIGATORY HOUR MY WIFE AND I WERE OFFERED A DRINK AND SINCE IT WAS A BLIND-TASTING MENU THERE WERE NO CHOICES OTHER THAN HOW MANY COURSES? ||WE CHOSE 5 AND WERE SEATED HALF AN HOUR LATER. ||THE FIRST COURSE CONSISTED OF A SLIPPERY CONCOCTION OF RAZOR FISH CLAMS, RAW SCALLOPS & MOULE. IN FACT, THE ONLY ADDITIONAL TEXTURE TO BE HAD WAS THE 2" PIECE OF PLASTIC THAT WAS HIDDEN IN THE MEAL. ||I INFORMED THE MAISTER DE, WHO WAS SUITABLY CONCERNED/CONCERNED/CONCIALITORY BUT I WAS HAPPY TO SIMPLY MOVE ON SUGGESTING THAT SOMEONE COULD HAVE CHOKED ON IT AND BEST INFORM THE KITCHEN BLAH BLAH..||THE SECOND PLATE ARRIVED WITH A SIMILARLY TEXTURELESS GUNK CONSISTING OF MASHED AUBERGIGNE INNARDS TOPPED WITH SOU VIDE GREY MULLET ADORNED WITH SOME SLIPPERY SKIN FOR GOOD MEASURE.||NOT EXACTLY FEELING IT BUT LOOKING FORWARD TO BETTER. WE TUCKED INTO A SORBET TO CLEANSE THE PALLET AND LO AND BEHOLD OUR FRIEND THE PLASTIC APPEARED AGAIN. ||THIS TIME IN THE FORM OF A CLEAR HARD PLASTIC THAT LODGED IN MY THROAT AND HAD ME COUGHING & CHOKING, I KID YOU NOT.... ||RELIEVED TO HAVE COUGHED IT UP AND SPAT IT ONTO MY PLATE I CONTINUED TO PICK OTHER BITS OF SPIRELLED PLASTIC THAT HAD STUCK IN MY TEETH.||ONCE AGAIN THE MAISTRE DE WAS ON HAND TO SHAKE HIS HEAD AND OFFER HIS PERSONAL APOLOGY BUT NOTHING MORE.||WE BOTH FELT THAT AT THIS STAGE WE HAD GIVEN IT A CHANCE AND DECIDED TO BACK TO THE GOLF CLUB FOR SOMETHING LESS DANGEROUS TO EAT SUCH AS A BURGER OR SOMETHING AND WERE UTTERLY |FLABERGASTED TO BE PRESENTED WITH A BILL FOR THE ENTIRE 5 COURSES INCLUDING ONES WE HADN'T HAD ALONG WITH THE WINE ACCOMPANIMENT WE ALSO HADN'T HAD. ||DESPITE OUR PROTESTATIONS TO THE MANAGER WE WERE FORCED TO PAY THE BILL EVEN AFTER THE MANAGER WAS MADE TO CALL...

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avatar
4.0
3y

The hotel is in a lovely setting with extensive & attractive grounds and the conversion of the old buildings have been done sympathetically. The bedroom was generous in size & comfortable, the bathroom was ok.||However ...... despite the dining room being very attractive the dining experience was a great disappointment. The only offering was a tasting menu for which no menu could be provided (had we known that pigeon was the main meat course then we would have not agreed to take this menu). The courses were delivered at a speed to satisfy the chef, not the customer & despite twice asking the waiting staff for the courses to be slowed so that they could be enjoyed & digested, no notice was taken & indeed at one stage we were still consuming the soup when the next course was delivered, which was so unprofessional. Two of the courses included "foam" such that if you didn't consume them relatively quickly they started to disappear before your very eyes ! The large deep bowls made some of the food very difficult to completely retrieve - too much priority was given to pretty presentation & not enough priority to the customer trying to consume the food. ||On one day the electricity was unreliable such that the aircon was not working at times, which also resulted in the cold water not working - try having a shower with only hot water when the temp outside is 36C !! ||At our last breakfast time I had to check four different coffee cups before finding one that was properly clean. ||When we returned on our last afternoon we found that our bedroom door was not closed properly such that anyone could gain access without a keycard.||Finally, when I came to pay the extras the credit card system was not working & fortunately I had enough cash to pay the bill.||A hotel with great potential but not presently justifying 4* in...

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