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Grand At Grasmere — Restaurant in England

Name
Grand At Grasmere
Description
Simple rooms in an upscale country manor hotel with gardens, a terrace & breakfast.
Nearby attractions
Faeryland Grasmere
Red Bank, Ambleside LA22 9PX, United Kingdom
Heaton Cooper Studio
Grasmere, Ambleside LA22 9SX, United Kingdom
St Oswald’s Church
Church Stile, Grasmere, Ambleside LA22 9SW, United Kingdom
National Trust - Allan Bank and Grasmere
Grasmere, Ambleside LA22 9QB, United Kingdom
Wordsworth Daffodil Garden
Grasmere, Ambleside LA22 9SW, United Kingdom
Wordsworth Grasmere
Town End, Grasmere, Ambleside LA22 9PP, United Kingdom
Grasmere
Ambleside LA22 9PY, UK
Nearby restaurants
Tweedies Bar & Lodge Grasmere
Red Bank Rd, Grasmere LA22 9SW, United Kingdom
The Jumble Room
Langdale Rd, Grasmere, Ambleside LA22 9SU, United Kingdom
Tweedies Restaurant
3 Red Lion Cottages, Grasmere, Ambleside LA22 9ST, United Kingdom
Grasmere Tea Gardens
Church Bridge/Stock La, 18 Stock Ln, Grasmere, Ambleside LA22 9SN, United Kingdom
Greens Cafe & Bistro
College St, Grasmere, Ambleside LA22 9SZ, United Kingdom
1769 Bar & Restaurant
B5287, Grasmere, Ambleside LA22 9SP, United Kingdom
Harley's Bistro & Café Bar
2 College St, Grasmere, Ambleside LA22 9SZ, United Kingdom
Goody Blake's
The Old Coach House, Stock Ln, Grasmere, Ambleside LA22 9SL, United Kingdom
Nearby hotels
The Inn at Grasmere
Red Lion Square, Grasmere, Ambleside LA22 9SS, United Kingdom
The Wordsworth Hotel
Grasmere, Ambleside LA22 9SW, United Kingdom
Bridge House Hotel Grasmere
Church Bridge, Stock Lane, Grasmere LA22 9SN, United Kingdom
Moss Grove Organic
Grasmere, Ambleside LA22 9SW, United Kingdom
Lake View Country House and Self-catering Apartments
Lake View Dr, Grasmere, Ambleside LA22 9TD, United Kingdom
Beck Allans Guest House
College St, Grasmere, Ambleside LA22 9SZ, United Kingdom
Marys Cottage, Grasmere
Lake View Dr, Grasmere, Ambleside LA22 9TD, United Kingdom
Victorian House
Broadgate, Grasmere, Ambleside LA22 9TA, United Kingdom
Stonegarth
Grasmere, Ambleside, United Kingdom
YHA Grasmere Butharlyp Howe
Easedale Rd, Grasmere, Ambleside LA22 9QG, United Kingdom
Related posts
Keywords
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Grand At Grasmere things to do, attractions, restaurants, events info and trip planning
Grand At Grasmere
United KingdomEnglandGrand At Grasmere

Basic Info

Grand At Grasmere

Grand At Grasmere, Red Bank Road, Grasmere LA22 9PU, United Kingdom
4.6(173)
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spot

Ratings & Description

Info

Simple rooms in an upscale country manor hotel with gardens, a terrace & breakfast.

attractions: Faeryland Grasmere, Heaton Cooper Studio, St Oswald’s Church, National Trust - Allan Bank and Grasmere, Wordsworth Daffodil Garden, Wordsworth Grasmere, Grasmere, restaurants: Tweedies Bar & Lodge Grasmere, The Jumble Room, Tweedies Restaurant, Grasmere Tea Gardens, Greens Cafe & Bistro, 1769 Bar & Restaurant, Harley's Bistro & Café Bar, Goody Blake's
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Phone
+44 15394 35486
Website
grandatgrasmere.co.uk

Plan your stay

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Reviews

Nearby attractions of Grand At Grasmere

Faeryland Grasmere

Heaton Cooper Studio

St Oswald’s Church

National Trust - Allan Bank and Grasmere

Wordsworth Daffodil Garden

Wordsworth Grasmere

Grasmere

Faeryland Grasmere

Faeryland Grasmere

4.5

(344)

Closed
Click for details
Heaton Cooper Studio

Heaton Cooper Studio

4.6

(243)

Open until 5:00 PM
Click for details
St Oswald’s Church

St Oswald’s Church

4.8

(27)

Open 24 hours
Click for details
National Trust - Allan Bank and Grasmere

National Trust - Allan Bank and Grasmere

4.6

(360)

Open until 5:00 PM
Click for details

Things to do nearby

Lake District Kayaking Tour
Lake District Kayaking Tour
Thu, Dec 11 • 10:00 AM
Glenridding, CA11 0PB, United Kingdom
View details
Meditate with Horses
Meditate with Horses
Sat, Dec 13 • 9:00 AM
Westmorland and Furness, LA22 0HU, United Kingdom
View details
Walk and swim in the Lake District
Walk and swim in the Lake District
Sun, Dec 14 • 9:00 AM
Ulverston, LA21 8BN, United Kingdom
View details

Nearby restaurants of Grand At Grasmere

Tweedies Bar & Lodge Grasmere

The Jumble Room

Tweedies Restaurant

Grasmere Tea Gardens

Greens Cafe & Bistro

1769 Bar & Restaurant

Harley's Bistro & Café Bar

Goody Blake's

Tweedies Bar & Lodge Grasmere

Tweedies Bar & Lodge Grasmere

4.3

(946)

Click for details
The Jumble Room

The Jumble Room

4.9

(262)

$$

Click for details
Tweedies Restaurant

Tweedies Restaurant

4.5

(129)

Click for details
Grasmere Tea Gardens

Grasmere Tea Gardens

4.3

(309)

$

Click for details
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Posts

Shaun MaloneyShaun Maloney
I've never left a review part way through a stay somewhere, but I can't unfortunately see how my experience will improve. Upon arrival were high expectations as greeting was 1st class and the hotel surroundings can't be beaten. But after this went downhill. Poorly maintained and not detail cleaned room. From cobwebs in corners, to a wall that is flaking away possibly due to water damage and potential mould which is no good. Dangerous chairs indoors as the legs are at an angle so one sit on them and you'd be on the floor. Patio was a great highlight, but had a constantly leaking pipe running on to it, surely this pipe should be connected to the drain which is only mere feet away. And a leaking gutter which in the rain creates a loud dripping noise. Pictures attached of these issues and as booked a 'superior lodge' were not expected. Breakfast is to me the most important meal of the day as sets you up on holiday, the experience though was abysmal after just 2 days. On day 1 was OK, but part of the order did not come, only toast but still this matters. On day 2 it was unbearably hot in the dining room and it seems the air conditioning doesn't work or is not utilised. Also on day 2 due to the heat we asked if we could instead move outdoors as was a free table. Was explained not possible even though others were sat outside, and yet 5 minutes later someone sits outside and walks in for service and is told will be right with you? Not acceptable to treat guests this way and lie. Even prior to the stay was a bit shambolic as booked when VAT was 20% and when emailed the hotel to query what was happening to my cost when VAT was cut to 5% this was never responded to. Further more the day before the stay I got an email from the hotel increasing the cost of the stay by £120?? Looking then at the new bill VAT was listed as 5%, but they just added the difference to the room rate so I was charged the same. I understand businesses have gone through some difficult times recently, but at the same time they need to be honest with their customers and say if they are passing on the VAT cut or keeping the money themselves and adjusting bills 'behind the scenes'. Have always been an honest reviewer and if look at my other reviews will often see 5* so all of this is accurate. I came here with 5* expectations after doing my research, but was woefully disappointed so 2* is the best I can offer. DAY 3 UPDATE - Some of concerns were raised with reception and apology was given so appreciated this somewhat. Was advised eating outside is an absolutely fine option. Explained that we had a dinner reservation the following night and were concerned about the heat in the restaurant and agreed to reserve an outdoor table which was appreciated. DAY 4 UPDATE - Much better breakfast experience, served by different waiter so likely helped. Did arrive for dinner which was booked and we highlighted this to the first waiter we saw that was for food and was able to have an outdoor table, though after the initial drinks order we had to get someone's attention after a patient 30 minute wait to request placing our food order. Again the place seems confused when it comes to outdoor eating. Food VS price did not match expectations and had much better meals in Lewis's bistro and Misto in Ambleside at similar price points. I rarely eat in hotels as I find them lazy with food as they feel they have a captive audience, this was my thought here. So despite an improved day 3 which after had considered a rating upgrade have still only felt comfortable with the 2* been retained. DAY 5 (departure day) UPDATE - Another hot morning in the restaurant for breakfast as air conditioning not working was advised. Asked for brown bread toast and got white. Partners breakfast order not put through so only mine arrived at 1st. Staff are very apologetic, but has just been too many times things have gone wrong so can't give the benefit of the doubt anymore. Shall not be staying again and would not recommend anyone stay here who has certain high expectations.
Tahaab RaisTahaab Rais
One of the best parts of our trip to the UK this summer. The vacation didn’t go as planned. I was so looking forward to Lake District’s part of our trip but had a bad fracture before coming over in an accident in the UK. That kind of ruined the experience of Grasmere and Windermere for me. But the hotel more than made up for it! To quote my older daughter, “There aren’t too many people here as staff but they always make you feel important.” Firstly, the manager is great. We had a bit of an issue on our first day which she sorted out promptly. Friendly, caring, helpful and gave us lots of good advice. Including giving me a walking stick to help me while I got my crutches delivered from Amazon. She recommended many things for our kids to do too. Secondly, the staff are great. From Claudio at reception and check in to Anthony (?) to Dibvega (?) in the restaurant. They were all so helpful, considerate, kind and went out of their way to help us throughout. They made it special too. The men also helped carry our luggages Thirdly, the room was great. We got the Fell View Suite as it accommodated our family. And was spacious enough. Fourthly, the view was great! Stunning property and so calming and relaxing. Next, the restaurant - the food is really nice, flavorful and cooked just right - definitely try the sea food. And if you want to order from Windermere, plenty of restaurants deliver too. Then, the location. Grasmere is lovely and it’s all walkable from this hotel. The lake is close too and a short hike away. Parking on site (albeit not secure but Grasmere is safe!) made things super easy. If you’re coming to Windermere or even Grasmere, don’t hesitate to stay here. It’s a beautiful place :) I know if we ever come back to Gramsere in the near future, we will revisit this hotel. P.S. The only catch is they’ve got no elevator - it’s just one floor so if you can’t climb or have mobility issues, just note that. But they say it clearly on their website, so it’s no secret.
Lily BrownLily Brown
I have mixed feelings about our 2 night stay here. Detailed review below :) Pros -great facility. Hotel is very new and has AC and very comfy seating in their common area. The bathroom and beds were all very comfortable -quality breakfast, lots of variety included within the breakfast packet -perfect location. It’s a 3 minute walk from the town center, but far enough away for beautiful views and calm mornings Cons -understaffed or poor service. I couldn’t tell if the service wasn’t good or if they just didn’t have enough help. No one was ever at the front desk or offered us basic tourist information. We checked in late at 10pm and we were locked out with no staff visible even though it said in their email we could check in as late at 12am. We had to call their emergency cell to get someone to the front. Also our first breakfast here we sat and then we’re questioned multiple times if we were staying there and what rooms. I think the restaurant used to be open to the public, which it isn’t anymore, but I didn’t see them questioning any of the other guests as much as us. We were the only non-white guests that I saw there so maybe that had something to do with it, but the next morning they recognized us and we had no trouble with the service after that. -no lift. I’m not sure if you can call yourself “luxury” if you put your guests on the third floor and make them lug all their luggage up 2 flights of very narrow twisted stairs. For my elderly aunt they did help her, but did not offer for the rest of us. Overall, it was an ok experience. I loved the rooms and the location, but I think I could find better service and experience elsewhere. There are so many cute inns here, just choose another.
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Find a cozy hotel nearby and make it a full experience.

I've never left a review part way through a stay somewhere, but I can't unfortunately see how my experience will improve. Upon arrival were high expectations as greeting was 1st class and the hotel surroundings can't be beaten. But after this went downhill. Poorly maintained and not detail cleaned room. From cobwebs in corners, to a wall that is flaking away possibly due to water damage and potential mould which is no good. Dangerous chairs indoors as the legs are at an angle so one sit on them and you'd be on the floor. Patio was a great highlight, but had a constantly leaking pipe running on to it, surely this pipe should be connected to the drain which is only mere feet away. And a leaking gutter which in the rain creates a loud dripping noise. Pictures attached of these issues and as booked a 'superior lodge' were not expected. Breakfast is to me the most important meal of the day as sets you up on holiday, the experience though was abysmal after just 2 days. On day 1 was OK, but part of the order did not come, only toast but still this matters. On day 2 it was unbearably hot in the dining room and it seems the air conditioning doesn't work or is not utilised. Also on day 2 due to the heat we asked if we could instead move outdoors as was a free table. Was explained not possible even though others were sat outside, and yet 5 minutes later someone sits outside and walks in for service and is told will be right with you? Not acceptable to treat guests this way and lie. Even prior to the stay was a bit shambolic as booked when VAT was 20% and when emailed the hotel to query what was happening to my cost when VAT was cut to 5% this was never responded to. Further more the day before the stay I got an email from the hotel increasing the cost of the stay by £120?? Looking then at the new bill VAT was listed as 5%, but they just added the difference to the room rate so I was charged the same. I understand businesses have gone through some difficult times recently, but at the same time they need to be honest with their customers and say if they are passing on the VAT cut or keeping the money themselves and adjusting bills 'behind the scenes'. Have always been an honest reviewer and if look at my other reviews will often see 5* so all of this is accurate. I came here with 5* expectations after doing my research, but was woefully disappointed so 2* is the best I can offer. DAY 3 UPDATE - Some of concerns were raised with reception and apology was given so appreciated this somewhat. Was advised eating outside is an absolutely fine option. Explained that we had a dinner reservation the following night and were concerned about the heat in the restaurant and agreed to reserve an outdoor table which was appreciated. DAY 4 UPDATE - Much better breakfast experience, served by different waiter so likely helped. Did arrive for dinner which was booked and we highlighted this to the first waiter we saw that was for food and was able to have an outdoor table, though after the initial drinks order we had to get someone's attention after a patient 30 minute wait to request placing our food order. Again the place seems confused when it comes to outdoor eating. Food VS price did not match expectations and had much better meals in Lewis's bistro and Misto in Ambleside at similar price points. I rarely eat in hotels as I find them lazy with food as they feel they have a captive audience, this was my thought here. So despite an improved day 3 which after had considered a rating upgrade have still only felt comfortable with the 2* been retained. DAY 5 (departure day) UPDATE - Another hot morning in the restaurant for breakfast as air conditioning not working was advised. Asked for brown bread toast and got white. Partners breakfast order not put through so only mine arrived at 1st. Staff are very apologetic, but has just been too many times things have gone wrong so can't give the benefit of the doubt anymore. Shall not be staying again and would not recommend anyone stay here who has certain high expectations.
Shaun Maloney

Shaun Maloney

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Find a cozy hotel nearby and make it a full experience.

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One of the best parts of our trip to the UK this summer. The vacation didn’t go as planned. I was so looking forward to Lake District’s part of our trip but had a bad fracture before coming over in an accident in the UK. That kind of ruined the experience of Grasmere and Windermere for me. But the hotel more than made up for it! To quote my older daughter, “There aren’t too many people here as staff but they always make you feel important.” Firstly, the manager is great. We had a bit of an issue on our first day which she sorted out promptly. Friendly, caring, helpful and gave us lots of good advice. Including giving me a walking stick to help me while I got my crutches delivered from Amazon. She recommended many things for our kids to do too. Secondly, the staff are great. From Claudio at reception and check in to Anthony (?) to Dibvega (?) in the restaurant. They were all so helpful, considerate, kind and went out of their way to help us throughout. They made it special too. The men also helped carry our luggages Thirdly, the room was great. We got the Fell View Suite as it accommodated our family. And was spacious enough. Fourthly, the view was great! Stunning property and so calming and relaxing. Next, the restaurant - the food is really nice, flavorful and cooked just right - definitely try the sea food. And if you want to order from Windermere, plenty of restaurants deliver too. Then, the location. Grasmere is lovely and it’s all walkable from this hotel. The lake is close too and a short hike away. Parking on site (albeit not secure but Grasmere is safe!) made things super easy. If you’re coming to Windermere or even Grasmere, don’t hesitate to stay here. It’s a beautiful place :) I know if we ever come back to Gramsere in the near future, we will revisit this hotel. P.S. The only catch is they’ve got no elevator - it’s just one floor so if you can’t climb or have mobility issues, just note that. But they say it clearly on their website, so it’s no secret.
Tahaab Rais

Tahaab Rais

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I have mixed feelings about our 2 night stay here. Detailed review below :) Pros -great facility. Hotel is very new and has AC and very comfy seating in their common area. The bathroom and beds were all very comfortable -quality breakfast, lots of variety included within the breakfast packet -perfect location. It’s a 3 minute walk from the town center, but far enough away for beautiful views and calm mornings Cons -understaffed or poor service. I couldn’t tell if the service wasn’t good or if they just didn’t have enough help. No one was ever at the front desk or offered us basic tourist information. We checked in late at 10pm and we were locked out with no staff visible even though it said in their email we could check in as late at 12am. We had to call their emergency cell to get someone to the front. Also our first breakfast here we sat and then we’re questioned multiple times if we were staying there and what rooms. I think the restaurant used to be open to the public, which it isn’t anymore, but I didn’t see them questioning any of the other guests as much as us. We were the only non-white guests that I saw there so maybe that had something to do with it, but the next morning they recognized us and we had no trouble with the service after that. -no lift. I’m not sure if you can call yourself “luxury” if you put your guests on the third floor and make them lug all their luggage up 2 flights of very narrow twisted stairs. For my elderly aunt they did help her, but did not offer for the rest of us. Overall, it was an ok experience. I loved the rooms and the location, but I think I could find better service and experience elsewhere. There are so many cute inns here, just choose another.
Lily Brown

Lily Brown

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Reviews of Grand At Grasmere

4.6
(173)
avatar
2.0
5y

I've never left a review part way through a stay somewhere, but I can't unfortunately see how my experience will improve. Upon arrival were high expectations as greeting was 1st class and the hotel surroundings can't be beaten. But after this went downhill. Poorly maintained and not detail cleaned room. From cobwebs in corners, to a wall that is flaking away possibly due to water damage and potential mould which is no good. Dangerous chairs indoors as the legs are at an angle so one sit on them and you'd be on the floor. Patio was a great highlight, but had a constantly leaking pipe running on to it, surely this pipe should be connected to the drain which is only mere feet away. And a leaking gutter which in the rain creates a loud dripping noise. Pictures attached of these issues and as booked a 'superior lodge' were not expected. Breakfast is to me the most important meal of the day as sets you up on holiday, the experience though was abysmal after just 2 days. On day 1 was OK, but part of the order did not come, only toast but still this matters. On day 2 it was unbearably hot in the dining room and it seems the air conditioning doesn't work or is not utilised. Also on day 2 due to the heat we asked if we could instead move outdoors as was a free table. Was explained not possible even though others were sat outside, and yet 5 minutes later someone sits outside and walks in for service and is told will be right with you? Not acceptable to treat guests this way and lie. Even prior to the stay was a bit shambolic as booked when VAT was 20% and when emailed the hotel to query what was happening to my cost when VAT was cut to 5% this was never responded to. Further more the day before the stay I got an email from the hotel increasing the cost of the stay by £120?? Looking then at the new bill VAT was listed as 5%, but they just added the difference to the room rate so I was charged the same. I understand businesses have gone through some difficult times recently, but at the same time they need to be honest with their customers and say if they are passing on the VAT cut or keeping the money themselves and adjusting bills 'behind the scenes'. Have always been an honest reviewer and if look at my other reviews will often see 5* so all of this is accurate. I came here with 5* expectations after doing my research, but was woefully disappointed so 2* is the best I can offer. DAY 3 UPDATE - Some of concerns were raised with reception and apology was given so appreciated this somewhat. Was advised eating outside is an absolutely fine option. Explained that we had a dinner reservation the following night and were concerned about the heat in the restaurant and agreed to reserve an outdoor table which was appreciated. DAY 4 UPDATE - Much better breakfast experience, served by different waiter so likely helped. Did arrive for dinner which was booked and we highlighted this to the first waiter we saw that was for food and was able to have an outdoor table, though after the initial drinks order we had to get someone's attention after a patient 30 minute wait to request placing our food order. Again the place seems confused when it comes to outdoor eating. Food VS price did not match expectations and had much better meals in Lewis's bistro and Misto in Ambleside at similar price points. I rarely eat in hotels as I find them lazy with food as they feel they have a captive audience, this was my thought here. So despite an improved day 3 which after had considered a rating upgrade have still only felt comfortable with the 2* been retained. DAY 5 (departure day) UPDATE - Another hot morning in the restaurant for breakfast as air conditioning not working was advised. Asked for brown bread toast and got white. Partners breakfast order not put through so only mine arrived at 1st. Staff are very apologetic, but has just been too many times things have gone wrong so can't give the benefit of the doubt anymore. Shall not be staying again and would not recommend anyone stay here who has certain high...

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avatar
5.0
3y

My partner and I spent three nights at the Grand mid October 2022, and our stay couldn't have been better. The location is probably the best in Grasmere, the views are stunning, it is away from major roads, and you can see the Lake from the bar/restaurant and from some of the bedrooms. But even if you just see the fells, you feel like you are in the Lake District. The hotel is beautifully decorated, ultra clean, and the communal areas have a great atmosphere Staff are efficient, discreet yet friendly, chatty when you want them to be, polite, and considerate. For instance, they waited until we got up for breakfast before tidying the garden outside our bedroom. Talking of which: we upgraded on arrival (thanks to the gentleman and to the housekeeping assistant who sorted this out for us) from a very beautiful and comfortable bedroom, to another one offering a better view and a ground floor patio. It was very special. The website had warned us that the bathroom was compact, but it was fine and still had a decently sized bathtub. This is rated as a 3 stars property, yet the level of service and attention to detail is 4 stars (mind, so is the pricing). We have stayed in 4 stars hotels that were not as clean, and offered less in-room facilities than this property. For instance, even the standard room here has an expresso machine and a fridge, and the tv has Freeview Play (instead of run of the mill Freeview). Little details, but quite important ones when you stay a few days. Then there's the food. Breakfast was delicious and cooked perfectly every morning, no matter which chef was on duty. Starting the day with tasty food while looking out to the beautiful garden, the lake, the fells, and the cattle fields, is just perfect. We only dined here on the first night, the menu is quite small, but what is on it is very well executed and beautifully presented. The open kitchen area makes the dining experience rather unique too. And after finding out that every café in Grasmere charges hotel prices for their evening fares, I would be happy to just dine in the hotel next time we come back. Finally, if Covid safety matter to you, there are still hotel policies here that will reassure you: no cash payments, all tables sanitised as soon as vacated, and a continental breakfast served by the employees instead of being self-service. Congratulations to the employees for their efficiency, and to their employers for their vision. We...

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avatar
4.0
1y

As a regular at the sister hotel in Lytham St Annes, booking here was an easy choice. It is in a good location, a little back from the lake but our room had a distant view of it at the far end of a nearby field. Check in could have been warmer and was quite functional. Throughout the stay, staff were not very engaging with one exception. The room was medium size and the small en-suite was a wet room. This wasn't very effective for two people as the floor in the morning, especially for the second user, was like paddling pool so drying had to be done in the room. |It wad during a mini-heatwave and the airconditioning was not on. Opening the window encouraged flies and the hotel had no fly spray so it took two days to persuade them to put on the aircon in the room and that was only done grudgingly.|We dined on the first night but decided against another booking as the heat in the dining area (with open cooking) was excessive and again, aircon switched off. Breakfast was equally hot.|On the subject of breakfast. This is one of the star features of the Lytham Grand. Here, they ran out of Tomato juice on day 2 and 3 and all other juices except apple and orange on day 3. The croissants ran out every day well before the end of breakfast and they even ran out of ALL bread on day 2. No marmalade on day 3. Breakfasts otherwise were fine though on the third morning my "roasted tomatoes" were straight from the fridge and my complaint was ignored. The black pudding was so overcooked as to be inedible.|In the bar there was a choice of two vodkas. The prohibitively expensive Belvedere or their own label. Also on our first night they started clearing up and hounding us for drinks just after 9.00pm when it looked like they were shutting the bar. We ended up drinking at Tweedies across the road with much more personality and atmosphere and considerably cheaper.|I made these comments in my feedback but with no reponse from the hotel I am reluctantly doing this revue and I have also cancelled my stay in October at the Grand in Lytham.|I am more sad than anything as the Lytham Grand has always been my "happy place" and I had hoped to add Grasmere to that list but the lack of management engagement both whilst there and since leaving has left...

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